Yep, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one, JB. For me, it is all about the Constitution. To me, your politicians were the ones taking away rights, not the NRA. They’re supposed to be unalienable rights, remember?- i.e. bestowed upon us by our creator, not some damn bureaucrat or politician.

The anti-gun laws passed in Colorado are unconstitutional – pure and simple. Did the people get to vote on that? I’m not a ‘gun nut’ by any stretch, but the people have spoken, and loudly at that. I know some folks have an issue with guns, but our country would not exist without them – that’s a fact. Guns are our liberty teeth, and the 2nd Amendment is about keeping the government in check – not hunting. This recall did just that, btw, it demonstrated that if you attack the Constitution like this, then the people have a recourse to remove you. Good stuff.

I also find it telling that folks from outside Colorado, like Bloomberg, spent much more money than the NRA on trying to prevent the recall, and the people overcame the outside influence to make it happen. Interesting that you leave out the money that the other side of the fence spent on this. Perhaps you would prefer nanny Bloomberg to come in and champion the implementation of unconstitutional searches like he did in New York, too? It’s a slippery slope when the ends justify the means. I also find it significant that one of the pols was from a heavily democratic county, and she got tossed out of there just the same. Just goes to show there are patriots still left in all groups, so there is still some hope left. I still say, ‘Well done, Colorado!’ :banana:

With that said, I will leave it at that. If you are truly sincere about not wanting to offend anyone, though, I would refrain from stereotypical comments like, ‘We’re not a bunch of gun toting rednecks’ – I definitely take offense to that. I’m no redneck (not that there’s anything wrong with being one); but, I love our Constitution, and I was wiling to serve our county to protect it – all of it.

The laws still need a good legal challenge, but the people exercised their power to defeat folks who seek to rewrite the Constitution for their own purposes – http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/colorado-recall-guns-referendum-96566.html Well done, Colorado!

"shall not be infringed!"

Great News!
  Hopefully the senate &house of reps can also learn from this

Gun toting redneck here… :Smokey:

2nd Amendment FTW!  Guess these schlubs found out how the phrase "shall not be infringed" can negatively impact one’s career path.  One would think they’d at least have considered their own futures, but then again, that speaks volumes about the general state of our politicians, IMO.  Not that the ones they got replaced with will likely do any better – everyone’s got their price in the governing biz. >:( 

Violation of the constitution is exactly what was happening there, JB.  Very plain, very simple.  Go read it, I promise it’s in there.  Exactly the sort of thing for which you’re espousing a recall election to be purposed, yet you seem kinda butthurt about the outcome because it doesn’t match your own personal views.  This is the democratic process in action – somebody’s always gonna get hosed.  Kinda how it works.  I’m not always a big fan of it either, as it assumes that the majority are smart enough to know what’s good for them, but the world has yet to come up with a more viable political system, so it’s really about as good as it gets for now.  When the people in charge make decisions against the will of the majority of the people, they didn’t catch on to that whole concept.  Would you really be happier under a dictator who makes all these tough decisions for you, like it or not?  Or perhaps a nice Theocracy?  Probably not.  The FF’s, for all their fobiles, realized this 238 years ago and started a country on the principle.

You’re chomping at the bit to dehumanize people – that’s the first step to repression.  Seriously brother, that’s where it all begins, and it’s worrisome.  "Our" kind was similarly dehumanized, resulting in the majority being OK with TWAD for the last forty years, despite the simple fact that pot is pretty much harmless.  In a lot of unenlightened people’s eyes, we’re still just a bunch of druggies good for nothing but fodder for the industrio-penal war machine.  Same thing with slavery – the owners viewed them as inhuman, so it was OK for them to do all those horrible, horrible things by that morality.  It’s a dangerous road, one exploited by TPTB for thousands of years to pit one faction against another.  We have a chance to break that cycle, if only enough people will realize they’re being played.  White/Black, Dem/Repub, the list goes on and on.  Authority always seeks to keep any threat to it’s rule divided.  As long as we’re fighting each other, we’re not fighting THEM.

Pro-gun folks aren’t all your stereotypical cowboy types.  I myself would never dream of using my firearms in any manner but target practice, hunting (which I don’t even do lol), or, most vitally, self defense.  I suppose some might chalk that up to good upbringing, but I’d simply never do something like that because I know it’s wrong.  Golden rule, right?  There’s some crazy bastards out there, though.  I’m no small fry, but the wonderful thing about firearms is that they made us all equal in a sense.  Doesn’t matter if you’re the proverbial 98-pound weakling – so long as you’ve got a trusty firearm, you have every chance of successfully defending yourself and your family from the biggest, meanest criminal that ever was.  For all our monkey-bluster, humans are actually very fragile creatures who will be brought to a screaming end if they get a few holes poked in them.  Even a very small hole will produce enough fluid loss to make that big, meanass criminal decide that your loved ones are no longer a viable target.  It’s a small price to pay for that peace of mind, to me at least.

I don’t trust gun-grabbers, because as soon as they get them, it gives them license to do pretty much whatever they want to you and yours with impunity.  One who wants to strip away that powerful of a defensive equalization has pretty much already decided they want to do you harm, and that’s what stands in the way.  Odds are they’re not wanting to give you ice cream and cake.  History has borne this out many times.

Maybe you’re just surrounded by some shitty people, JB.  That’s always a possibility.  You know we all love ya regardless, and there are many out there who would be willing to use their guns to protect you and yours, should that be what it came down to.  I hope someone like that is around if you ever need them.  (Not referring to the popo – don’t depend on them!)

And if nothing else…for the love of God…at least keep a fucking spear near at hand at all times.  Don’t you know there’s cougars up there?  :beers:

Go ahead "ban" guns that will then be one if not the biggest profitable resource for importers and criminals. You will start seeing guns shot with catipults into the states instead of ganja!

Right on, EV – another epic post!  :rock:

Agree with all of your points, but this one is the core to me –

"I don’t trust gun-grabbers, because as soon as they get them, it gives them license to do pretty much whatever they want to you and yours with impunity.  One who wants to strip away that powerful of a defensive equalization has pretty much already decided they want to do you harm, and that’s what stands in the way.  Odds are they’re not wanting to give you ice cream and cake.  History has borne this out many times."

That is the exact point that our Founding Fathers understood all to well, and it is the reason that we have the 2nd in the first place. It’s easy to tell that the gun grabbers are full of crap by the laws that they champion. If they are really after preventing gun crimes, then why are they not focusing on the weapons that are used in most gun crimes, handguns? They go after semi auto rifles that are used for 1% or less of all gun related incidents. BS!

I am gonna start stocking up on ammo

one of us is bound to get a decent 3D printer

As mentioned earlier 3V1L93715 that was an excellant posting,
  The thing I hate most about the anti-gun politicians is that each & every one of them took an Oath of Office,
promising to uphold the Bill of Rights & Constitution and later don’t seem to recall what an oath means when
they get to work. I would like to see many of them convicted of Treason for so callously disregarding the oath
they made.
  Btw for folks who wanna buy guns that are mostly finished without a serial# and without gov’t intervention, which is
Your Right as an American citizen check out these guys:
http://aresarmor.com/store/Catagory/hmg
there are many others who vend 80% guns. Then again, if you live in a state that still recognizes citizen rights
you can always simply log into your cities backpage.com and check out sporting goods. No registration when you
purchase second hand guns without a dealer involved. I’m sure some folks will blow a fuse over this, but the sad
fact is most gun wielding criminals steal the gun they use to commit their crime, they don’t hafta buy it…Same goes
for ammo. Keeping ammo availability low has had zero effect on crime, there is always someone to steal it from…
So Let’s Fight Crime, instead of legal gun owners.

JB I fully believe in your right to act as you wish (barring the hurt of others)
I won’t dis you for not liking guns. Until after I was assaulted back in 1990, I didn’t
even own a gun & didn’t particularly care for them. The mugging changed my perception
and my gun ownership as well and that was partly the police dispatchers fault. When
I called for help the dispatcher told me 1) that money (and thieves) are long gone  &
(2) the police are far too busy attending serious crimes to take my report. Then he laughed
at me & that was actually the most hurtful part of what he had to say to me. That started me
thinking & 6 months later I got my rights restored & a gun. Since then I have lost my rights
a couple more times, but I still wish to retain the power to resist a criminal who puts my life
in danger. Around here when seconds count the police are just minutes away.
I celebrate your freedom to make your own choice JB :weed:

Well-balanced, and well-spoken, Jones.

I do dearly apologize if my sarcasm was misinterpreted as a personal attack, JB.  That was not my intention.

I would ask how you reconcile your beliefs against the 2nd Amendment and a representative elected form of government, because all I see is that functioning as intended in this instance.  Perhaps I misunderstood your statements, or you were just perturbed with the whole situation and ranting.  That I understand lol.

I don’t doubt that the NRA had a big hand in the propaganda surrounding.  I’m not always a big fan of that organization either, but I do think that, overall, they are in defense of a right that should not be denied to any man – the right of self-defense.  You don’t need protection from guns.  The guns are inanimate objects – it’s the evil bastards who use them to harm others for personal gain that you want protection from.  The best protection?  The ability to perforate the infiler until they retreat or become deceased.  Even a fucking spear won’t do you any good against an armed intruder who has set in their mind to do you harm.  Unless they’re a cougar.  (Or even unarmed, if they’re bigger and meaner than you, or have you at a disadvantageous position, such as outnumbered,etc.  Jones’ tale will attest to this as a relevant reference.)

Again, please don’t misinterpret my rantings, JB.  You’re an awesome person. 

Also… if you hit the "enter" key twice at the end of a sentence, you will start a new paragraph.  [wall o text]  :nannah:

Peace pipe for JB.  🙂 :steamroller

Yeah. I couldn’t read JB’s post. My eyes kept skipping lines.

JB,

From what I can tell, you have no intention of having a real debate on this issue. You have your mind made up, and you regard the folks with an opposing viewpoint with disdain. You also seem to think it OK to talk down to folks in your posts, but then act offended when folks give it back to you. Pretty typical for the anti gun crowd, really.

For example, you throw out bombs like, ‘I hate people manipulating and misinterpreting its language purely to further their own agendas, whether liberal or conservative.’ without offering any sort of backup to your claim. Also, ‘I just don’t agree with their arguments because they’re not great arguments.’ When you say things like that, it is clear that you have no regard for the opposing view. I have a simple argument for you – gun control laws simply do not work. Have a look at Chicago for all the proof that you need. Here’s an example to prove my point – http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2013/08/30/harvard-gun-study-no-decrease-in-violence-with-ban/ If you deny citizens the right to bear arms, then the criminals will be the only one with guns. This is proven over and over again, basically everywhere. Care to challenge that notion?

I would also suggest that, no, you really do not understand the point of the Constitution. The Constitution was specifically designed to restrict government. You throw out bombs like this, "I have no interest in arguing with people who seem to believe I cant or haven’t read my own constitution or don’t have the ability or desire to understand the politics of my state and nation as a whole." The Constitution specifically guarantees that we can own weapons period. If you do not like the 2nd Amendment which states, ‘A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed’ then you are perfectly welcome to use the provided Amendment process to do away with it. Beyond that, pretty much any restrictive weapons law is unconstitutional, and it does not matter whether you think said law is a good idea or not. Definition of Infringe, ‘to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another.’ Bottom line, the Constitution does not provide for restrictive gun laws for any reason – period. Our Founding Fathers were perfectly cool with US citizens owning cannons, btw. Another common misconception is that the 2nd is somehow not related to keeping the government in check because of the word ‘militia.’ This is patently false. For proof, I offer the words of James Madison from the Federalist 46, ‘Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence.’ Madison clearly wrote the word militia with US citizens keeping the government in check in mind.

As for the Colorado laws, they are extremely misguided and were influenced by folks like Bloomberg – from another state! Registration of weapons is an infringement – period. Telling me how many rounds I can have is an infringement. In short, the laws the your politicians passed in Colorado were unconstitutional in the first place. I find it odd that you say, ‘what do you think of voter suppression, an illegal ruling to disallow mail in ballots.’ Not sure of the legalities of that ruling, but mail in ballots are certainly not covered in the Constitution, but my gun rights are. So you are fine with an passing unconstitutional gun laws first because it supports your point of view, but are pissed because you could not mail in a ballot? I do not follow that logic. Was your right to vote on the recall issue denied – no! Did the people of Colorado get a chance to voice their opinion on the gun control laws or vote on them prior to passage – no! Your politicians were ejected because they acted like you are – I know better than those damn rednecks, so I’m going to shove this down their redneck throats – Constitution be damned! The absolute hubris these politicians show these days is disgusting. Hopefully, this little event will make them think twice from now on. 2014 is almost here, and I believe a storm is brewing like in 2010. We shall see.

OK, so now my rant is done. I completely respect your right to think as you do, regardless of my opinion. Political discussion is certainly not why I signed up on this site, after all, but I do enjoy vigorous debate.. 😉 . Just thought some folks might find the article interesting. At the end of the day, there are certainly other things here that we all do agree on… :passing-joint:

Exhibit "A":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

Everyone should quit hassling JB,
  nothing closes a mind quicker than an extended assault.
Anyhow if he ever does decide to change his mind it will only
occur because He decided to, few people can be forced to change
the way they think, specially over the net.
  Thing is like a scab & I wish you’d stop picking at it

Also the interesting thing about people is we are not all the same
I know this community embraces differences & freedom

Everyone should quit hassling JB,
  nothing closes a mind quicker than an extended assault.
Anyhow if he ever does decide to change his mind it will only
occur because He decided to, few people can be forced to change
the way they think, specially over the net.
  Thing is like a scab & I wish you’d stop picking at it

Also the interesting thing about people is we are not all the same
I know this community embraces differences & freedom

:goodpost